Episode 84 – Why Swiss Cheese Organizing Doesn’t Actually Work with Lisa Woodruff
If you’ve ever reorganized the playroom for the fifth time only to feel like it made zero difference… you are not alone.
In this episode of De-Stress the Nest, Hannah Morgan sits down with Lisa Woodruff, founder of Organize365, to unpack the concept of “Swiss cheese organizing” — the idea that many parents are spending huge amounts of energy organizing the spaces in their homes that are naturally designed to become messy again quickly.
Lisa explains why organizing children’s spaces first often leads to frustration and burnout, especially during the early parenting years, and why focusing instead on your own daily-use spaces can create more peace, functionality, and sustainability in your home.
Together, Hannah and Lisa discuss:
Why organizing with kids under 5 can feel impossible
The hidden emotional benefit of organizing your own space first
Which rooms create the biggest return on effort
How systems can create calm instead of more pressure
Why maintenance matters more than perfection
This episode is packed with practical perspective shifts for overwhelmed parents who feel like they’re constantly resetting their homes.
Key Takeaways
Organizing kids’ spaces first creates burnout: Children’s spaces naturally cycle into mess quickly.
Your personal spaces matter: Your bedroom, closet, bathroom, and laundry room affect your daily mental load.
Systems should support your life: Focus on spaces that provide lasting peace and functionality.
Maintenance beats perfection: Sustainable organization matters more than aesthetic perfection.
Sometimes rest is the better investment: Not every free moment needs to become a productivity project.
Quotes
“Organizing your house with kids under 5 is like shoveling snow in a snowstorm.”
“You are putting forth a lot of organizing effort in the wrong spaces in your house.”
“Take a nap instead.”
“The spaces you should focus on first are your bedroom, your bathroom, your closet, your laundry room, and your kitchen.”
“Kids’ spaces have to be continually done.”
Resources Mentioned
Lisa Woodruff: Founder of Organize365
Escaping Quicksand by Lisa Woodruff
Heron House Management: Virtual house management for busy families: we handle your to-dos so you can focus on what matters most.
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This episode of De-Stress the Nest is sponsored by Heron House Management. Learn more at www.heronhousemanagement.com.
About Heron House Management:
Heron House Management is a virtual house management service that takes the stress out of your busy life by taking on your mental load and managing your To Do list. We provide fractional virtual house management for busy families at 10, 15 and 20+ hours/month.
Meal planning, signing up for kids activities, scheduling doctor's appointments, finding a house cleaner, planning your kid's birthday party, getting quotes for that home renovation project, or scheduling a monthly date night with your significant other and so much more. We do it all!
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[00:00:02] Hannah Morgan:
Welcome to De-Stress the Nest, a podcast for busy parents where experts share bite-sized tips on how to create systems that minimize stress at home. I’m your host, Hannah Morgan.[00:00:14] Hannah Morgan:
Today’s episode is sponsored by Heron House Management, the first-ever virtual house management service that lightens your mental load by handling your to-do list with monthly subscriptions of 10, 15, and 20+ hours per month. From meal planning and doctor’s appointments to birthday parties and home projects, Heron House Management helps busy families reclaim their time and live their best lives. Learn more at heronhousemanagement.com.[00:00:42] Hannah Morgan:
Lisa, I'm thrilled to have you on today's show. Let's start by hearing a little bit more about who you are and what you do.[00:00:52] Lisa Woodruff:
Yeah, so my name's Lisa Woodruff. I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm 54 years old, which I think is relevant because I've now lived five decades, and over my lifetime, I've been able to look back at how I've run a household, how I've organized myself and others, and that's really what I do in Organize365.[00:01:18] Lisa Woodruff:
I bring to light what you need to do in different phases of life in order to have the most time possible for what you're uniquely gifted and created to do.[00:01:30] Hannah Morgan:
Love that. Thank you for sharing, Lisa. We're so happy to have you with us today.[00:01:40] Hannah Morgan:
So, Lisa, today you're going to enlighten us on Swiss cheese organizing. I want to learn all about this because I know absolutely nothing, so please enlighten us.[00:01:54] Lisa Woodruff:
Okay, so I'm so excited to tell you this because, Hannah, you said your kids are 5, 4, and 1, right? If your children are under the age of 5 and you're thinking, “Oh my gosh, this house is a wreck, I need to organize,” and you have 20 minutes… I tell everyone with kids under 5 to take a nap instead.[00:02:26] Lisa Woodruff:
And the reason I say that is because organizing your house with kids under the age of 5 is like shoveling snow in a snowstorm. Everything changes every few weeks — the clothes, the toys, the food, the routines. It’s a constant game of whack-a-mole.[00:02:54] Lisa Woodruff:
So if you have free time, rest. Sleep. Don’t try to create a perfect Pottery Barn playroom in this season of life.[00:03:08] Lisa Woodruff:
Now, once your youngest child is in kindergarten, then we can start actually organizing the house in a more permanent way.[00:03:22] Lisa Woodruff:
Swiss cheese organizing is what I coined when I realized parents always wanted to organize the kids’ rooms first, or the playroom, or the family room. You spend all Saturday organizing, and by Sunday at noon, it looks destroyed again.[00:03:50] Lisa Woodruff:
So Swiss cheese organizing means you are putting a lot of organizing effort into the wrong spaces in your house.[00:04:02] Lisa Woodruff:
If you focus that same effort on different spaces, you actually can get organized.[00:04:12] Lisa Woodruff:
The first spaces you should organize are your bedroom, your bathroom, your closet, your laundry room, and your kitchen.[00:04:28] Lisa Woodruff:
Once those spaces are organized, they stay organized much longer and just require maintenance. Kids’ spaces, on the other hand, constantly reset into chaos.[00:04:46] Hannah Morgan:
Honestly, I’m having such a positive reaction to thinking about the last time I organized my own personal space. The amount of peace and calm I get from an organized closet versus organizing my kids’ rooms is huge.[00:05:08] Hannah Morgan:
I’m in my closet every day. I would rather see that organized than the playroom that’s going to explode again immediately.[00:05:22] Hannah Morgan:
And with three kids, everything is constantly rotating sizes and toys and systems. It never feels settled versus my own spaces where I can actually feel some control.[00:05:40] Hannah Morgan:
That’s such a practical example of filling your own cup. And honestly, I can’t think of a single parent who talks about organizing their own space first.[00:05:58] Lisa Woodruff:
You called it selfish, and I want to challenge that. I’m getting my PhD and studying adult stages of life, and I’ve realized women are expected to care for everyone else but rarely themselves.[00:06:20] Lisa Woodruff:
We understand childcare. We understand elder care. We provide clothing, food, education, enrichment, and support for the people we care for.[00:06:38] Lisa Woodruff:
But from the moment you become an adult until someone else may need to care for you later in life — that whole span of adulthood is self-care.[00:06:56] Lisa Woodruff:
You are responsible for caring for yourself the same way you care for others. And that’s not selfish.[00:07:10] Lisa Woodruff:
You deserve good nutrition, clothing, routines, exercise, education, hobbies, and rest. Those things matter for you too.[00:07:26] Hannah Morgan:
That’s such an interesting perspective because we’re constantly telling our kids to drink water, get outside, rest, eat well, and take care of themselves… but we rarely apply those same principles to ourselves.[00:07:48] Hannah Morgan:
So what happens in real life when people start organizing their own spaces first?[00:07:58] Lisa Woodruff:
Well, first of all, the family usually doesn’t undo those spaces. If you organize your own closet, your kids aren’t going to destroy it the next day.[00:08:14] Lisa Woodruff:
I used to get frustrated because people would follow my organizing systems and still never feel done. But once I reversed the order and had them organize their personal spaces, storage, paperwork, and household systems first, they actually got organized.[00:08:38] Lisa Woodruff:
And then they would joke and say, “Darn you, Lisa — now my house is organized and I actually have time to think about what I want to do with my life.”[00:08:54] Lisa Woodruff:
That’s the real goal. I want to unlock women’s time and capacity because women have so much goodness and creativity to give the world, but so much of it gets buried under constant housework.[00:09:06] Hannah Morgan:
Oh gosh, what a waste, right? We have so much potential and so much to give. Thank you for reminding us of that, Lisa.[00:09:11] Lisa Woodruff:
Thank you.[00:09:04] Hannah Morgan:
Thanks for listening to De-Stress the Nest, the podcast where experts share bite-sized tips on how to minimize stress at home. Don’t forget to subscribe and tune in every Tuesday for more ways to simplify your life.
